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mushin
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Post subject: Wet Noodle  Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:31 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:55 am
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Have you tried to apply your taiji fajing on soft arts where practitioners have hands that are as soft as a wet noodle?
When you try to fajing them its difficult because they don't offer you any resistance to work against.
How then would you apply your taiji principles such that you can also fajing a friend who has very soft hands?
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ah^gao
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:15 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 9:26 am
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Location: Teck Whye, Singapore
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OMG~ Willow and the Wind!
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Daniel Kaw
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micke
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:39 pm |
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Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 5:23 pm
Posts: 438
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hi Mushin
U had a real life experience with someone with soft hands? Can U share who is this tall hand?
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江湖问路不问心，问心问得几路行
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mushin
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:47 am |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:55 am
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aiya ah gao, talk food you talk trees 
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mushin
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:49 am |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:55 am
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hi micke, plenty of old timers got good hands; some are very soft. my question how does one deal with this or maybe its not possible at all using taiji - something to think about. otherwise what's the big deal in training taiji?
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micke
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:12 am |
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Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 5:23 pm
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hi mushin,
I know alot of old timers have soft hands, I also believes tat it is kungfu level how one can fajing against someone.
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江湖问路不问心，问心问得几路行
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Circle
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:32 am |
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Well said. Micke.
If you are better than soft-hand, you can induce the desired responses from soft-hands.
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ah^gao
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:23 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 9:26 am
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Location: Teck Whye, Singapore
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mushin wrote: aiya ah gao, talk food you talk trees Isn't it the same thing?
The willow's leaves is the noddle hand, while the wind is the inexperience MA'ist trying to inject power onto and fail everytime. Or is it the willow can "listern" to the power and ride onto it?
That's for the rest to discuss...
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一天不练手脚慢，两天不练丢一半，三天不练门外汉，四天不练瞪眼看。
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mushin
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:25 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:55 am
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no, different topic this time.
this time i am talking about us being the wind and encountering a willow. how do we overcome this willow.
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Circle
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:30 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:54 am
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LiuRei's Willow and the Wind analogue = Òõ²»ÀëÑôÑô²»ÀëÒõ
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mushin
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:39 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:55 am
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Consider this :-
a) A willow can ride out a strong wind
b) But a really strong wind can also blow down the willow
In a previous post, I was referring to (a) but in this post I am referring to (b).
Sometimes out of fun when I explain about taiji, I'll just ask the other person to let his hands go all soft so that its impossible to fajing him through his hands.
Then I'll ask this wet noodle question, after which I will ask if its even possible to fajing hands that give one no resistance to work against, no strength to borrow.
After which, I will pose this problem in the context of taiji training.
You know the saying "those who can't, teach". So similarly "those who can't, just pose silly questions" like this one
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ah^gao
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:00 pm |
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mushin wrote: if its even possible to fajing hands that give one no resistance to work against, no strength to borrow. But as I recall, you mentioned that unless we are dead, we have strength. Standing, watching or even using strength to let the hand down motionless?
If the above, as I recall, is correct, then it will be solely dependence on the person trying to inject by borrowing even the tiniest ounce of strength from the noddle hand?
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mushin
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:28 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:55 am
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not if we shift the point of strength to make it difficult to borrow one's strength
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ah^gao
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Post subject: Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:50 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 9:26 am
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Location: Teck Whye, Singapore
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If there is no strength in the noddle hand, then crush it and wait for the reaction strength to return and use it then!
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Daniel Kaw
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一天不练手脚慢，两天不练丢一半，三天不练门外汉，四天不练瞪眼看。
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unknown
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:15 am |
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ah^gao wrote: If there is no strength ... crush it and wait for the reaction strength to return and use it then!
hehe.. well said.. like I said you are the true master. 
And you are definitely correct. That is one of the correct way to deal with fake soft hands. And usually we don't wait for the response. There is no need. The crush pushes the hand against the body and locks the opponent for you to do whatever you want
There is always a misconception of soft hands in taiji for non-MA taiji pratictioner. Soft hands in taiji is a perception of soft hand caused by manipulation of Jing and basically in soft hands there is still jing. (Åï¾¢).
Peng jing and manipulation of opponent jing is the results of ËÉÈá. Most non-MA Taiji guys (who misunderstand) tend to think soft hands is result of É¢Èá (disperse soft) which is just purely relaxation of the hands. (As the person who raise the topic like to talk about, non-qi supported structure.  Makes me wonder why he need to ask this question in the first place  ). This also distinguishes the difference between real push-hand training and ppl who just goes through the motion.
Basically, Fajing is just one form of jing. Taiji is about jing in various forms and it is about manipulation of jing. Fajing, the term used in Chen style, is basically just one form, the symbol 8 technique of jing manipulation.
To act against fake soft hands, Diao, Na, ying jing techniques can also be used instead of the more direct crush hand way
This just my opinion to add to AhGao's comment.
To answer's mushin philosophical question, my philosophical answer is, "To deal with Wet noodles, EAT IT!!" hahahah.. To truely discuss and understand taiji, get technical,  not philosophical.
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mushin
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:27 am |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:55 am
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if don't ask question, what is there to discuss. might as well close the forum since its not exactly very active
ah technical. can just doing all the time lead to truly understanding what taiji is about? how do you know soft hands are fake? have you never hear that within deception one can hide a knife i have seen some try to crush only to fall into a trap. similarly, one can try to get a reaction but sometimes it may not be what one is hoping to get
but i guess this is all talk until you get a chance to come across what i am referring to
errrr...........is fajing really one form of jing? i thought FA-jing is to release out the jing. it is peng jing, etc that is a form of jing. same with huajing which is to neutralize the jing
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unknown
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:22 pm |
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mushin wrote: if don't ask question, what is there to discuss. might as well close the forum since its not exactly very active Wow! Ok. Can't speak for the rest but I must thank you for keeping this forum alive and entertaining me. Quote: but i guess this is all talk until you get a chance to come across what i am referring to Yup. you are probably right. I am just an amateur who do not have the indepth wealth of your knowledge to understand the complexity of the problems you face I am definitely not a fish. hahaha Quote: is fajing really one form of jing? i thought FA-jing is to release out the jing. it is peng jing, etc that is a form of jing. same with huajing which is to neutralize the jing
Well said. Like you said. I am a rat pretending to be know taiji See you caught me again.
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mushin
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:00 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:55 am
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being sarcastic i see
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jonathan.swift
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:59 pm |
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Better than some who post just for publicity.
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know.
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ah^gao
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:19 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 9:26 am
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Location: Teck Whye, Singapore
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jonathan.swift wrote: Those who speak, do not know. Oh Sh*t~ I'm infamous!
Bu seriously, hiding the strength to present a "fake noddle hand", possible?
¸Ð¾õÉÏÎÞÁ¦£¬ÆäʵËûÓо¢£»
ʹÁ¦°´ÏÂÈ¥£¬È´±»ËûÈ¡¾¢¡£
ÎÞÁ¦È´Óо¢£¬Óо¢²»Ê¹Á¦¡£¡£¡£ÄÚ¼ÒÒ²~
¿È~ ×Ó·ÎÊ¿××Ó£¬×ÓÔ»£º¡°¶àÎŶø²»ÑÔ¡±¡£ÎÒÊÇÔ½ÌýÔ½ºýÍ¿ÁË£¡
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