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The clinch is a favorite position of MT / MMA guys.

I've been researching on how to counter it. The standard muay thai escape involves putting your arms up to the other guy's head.



Problem is a good clinch will leave little room for a hand to go up and the power you can generate is not strong from that posture so you can't hit. You will have to stick close to the guy and trick him into an opening to slide your hand up. In the meantime, you keep eating knees to the side.

There is a technique in baji quan that strikes using the head while defending your face. I think in their "ba da zhao (八大招)" it's call "zhuang zhong (撞钟)"
I can't tell how it feels like, but from the looks of it, it seems to counter the clinch.

Any other suggestions on how to use CMA to escape or counter the clinch?

From my experience, I know of 2 moves.-one is the sport version & the other is the street fighting version.

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江湖问路不问心，问心问得几路行

Let me guess, leg takedown for sports version, headbutting for street fighting?

wakaoz... street fight still so gentle... grab balls... poke eyes... dig nose... slap to the ear (both side)... pull the hair... damn, if you slowly think, you could come out with many of them and depends on situation, you can even use item in the environment.

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Daniel Kaw
SgWutan.com Wushu Administrator

一天不练手脚慢，两天不练丢一半，三天不练门外汉，四天不练瞪眼看。

He mentioned one move lah,not combo~~~
Moreover it is specifically referring to muay thai clinch, if the assailant is trying to clinch what you mentioned might work, but once in a clinch it is much harder to do so(technically speaking the assailant got ur momentum,and with head facing down it is much harder to aim)~~~
Somemore Micke said only one move, and for a martial art expert like him thing which u had mentioned should have occurred in his mind already, so I presume he's referring to some move that's more technical. Otherwise if it is so open-ended might as well use weapon(knife for example) instead.
Lastly,I am a gentle guy~~~

helo, my 2 bros

relax...actually ah gao is right, it all depends on the situation & where my human or hidden weapons are at that time. mostly if I am ever so unlucky to be clinched unprepared. I was thinking like “挌”the hand clinch my neck & the other palm heel to his lower chin & push him backwards violently, instantly on the way jammed my elbow right into his " 腹中“穴, tat should be enough to repel him him &snap his neck at one go & then one can use any follow up technique to finish him off. Because my arms will be low then & this move should be more efficient cos the heel to the shin can also add as a block if the the assailant try to punch my face with his other hand as in most cases.

I find the headbutt not so effective unless there is enough gap to butt into his nose violently. The headbutt is the 1st opening move in Yi-zhimei.

For sport use, I was thinking about changing hands from his clinch to my clinch & then do a slam/throw or knee to ribs.

despite all these saying, sometimes, the body dun listen to brain. Bro Liu, I am still a student, not yet expert la

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江湖问路不问心，问心问得几路行

You are humble about your skill, I am also a student and even if you are a student you are better than me.

Ah^gao and I are not antagonistic towards each other lah, maybe my wording is not that good so as to cause miscomprehension.

Anyway I am not disagreeing with ah^gao, in fact I agree in that street fighting anything goes. However it seems we are answering different question: ah^gao's answer is relevant to application in street-fighting, whereas I focus on unarmed technique(s) since that's I infer from thread-starter.

While I dont do MT the clinch shown in the 1st thread does not impress me,IMO there are Fight Quest which the slimmer MT exponent is able to clinch,control and takedown the bulkier angmoh:


AFAIK there's a martial art like muay thai but utilizes the head as well in Myanmar known as lethwei(so-called "science of the 9 limbs" since MT is "science of the 8 limbs"......+ head ), for what I have read they use head to deal with the clinch, and lethwei exponents can headbutt front,sides and back~~~ It seems from the vid of MT vs lethwei the MT stylist is less able to perform the clinch due to headbutting.

That said,the best way to try out counter moves is to practise on a willing MT stylist with controlled force.

The best way is to learn some basic technique & then find one's path tat suit the individual. Any moves must withstand resistance and yet turn up fine to be considered ligitimate. It is 2 different things to be flowery in performance & actual combat. The goals are different, for example if I am doing qigong, I would be doing alot of combat-useless move. If I am doing the lion roar in combat, I prob wouldn't scare much people. So I think it is useful to determine how we can make thing work for us.


ok la, after all these say talk sing song, it is time to experiment, go try out & come back share your experiences, good luck!

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江湖问路不问心，问心问得几路行

Quoted for truth,experimenting and practicing on a resisting partner who knows how to do the technique is the best,if not the only way, to see whether it works,and one that suit the individual.
So wonder how the thread-starter take? Find some MT guy to experiment on?

PS:Thx the admin(ah^gao?) for sorting out the youtube link for me.

Errata:I accidentally omitted some wordings on the part regarding the clinch, should be "......,IMO there are better youtube vids on MT clinch techniques as shown in the youtube link, and the other is Fight Quest in which the slimmer MT exponent is able to clinch,control and takedown the bulkier angmoh:

Nice clip, liuzg!

What I'd tried previously that worked was to hanxiong babei to lessen the force of the clinch and use Xingyi's tiger movements in the hollow between our two bodies.

But my "opponents" were all friends. Though one of them apparently has trained and competed in Thailand, no-one was out to kill me and we were doing our stuff in training and not in sparring. Would need to train a lot more for that sort of stuff to flow naturally in the heat of a fight.

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Ma Weiqi Baguazhang
eastpaw's Yeast Pause

I tried the baji move with a friend of mine and it seems to work pretty well i.e. I was in a rooted arrow stance, my CG is lower, so if I treat my head as a giant fist, I just drive my head near the dantian area of the guy so he has to take the force. No need for counter clinch or sliding hand up, and you move downwards instead of upwards like the guy expected. If you push diagonally upwards, you can try to uproot the guy which will at least make him stagger back a few steps, breaking the clinch.

Having said that, I sort of don't see how a clinch will be used in a street context. The first thing the guy being clinched will do is probably try to grab the family jewels and rip them off. End of story.

I was thinking more in a sparring and competition aspect. I am an infighter and don't like staying in grappling range, so I'll rather go without the touchy-feely hugging one another bit.

Come to think of it, if you combine both the baji headbutt move and the ripping move, you'll probably get one hell of a scary combination.

@eastpaw:
AFAIK one of the most important advice is not to get lowered,as it would expose you to knees to the face,though knees to body is still possible . It seems that using hanxiong babei you are able to keep structural alignment that prevents you from being taken down.
Of course, as you have mentioned,pulling that off in heat of fight would be different thing altogether.

@WildfireXT:
So I guess you found someone who trains in Muay Thai and allows you to experiment on? The only danger I can posit is that by trying to headbutt the abdomen area you are inevitably lowering yourself for knee-strike on the you face-something that's a godsend opportunity for MT stylist,(if it is MMAist,i think the other thing would be guillotine choke).
And what competition do you intend to participate?

@liuzg15Q181:
Thanks for telling me about the guillotine choke from MMA, I haven't known about it before.

Yes, given the circumstances and the response of the opponent, either knee to the face or guillotine choke might be a possible counter to this baji move.

However there are a few caveats they have to overcome.

1. The headstrike is to the centerline of the opponent, near the dantien, and not a takedown wrestling move. This means the grappler needs to shift his body to the side to get a guillotine choke, since I'm aiming at the center of his body to push him away.

2. The knee strikes are expected with a clinch, so naturally any counter needs to take them into account. The standard baji move calls for the arms to form a deflecting wedge below the head with the elbows down to divert the force of an incoming knee strike while striking with the head. The knee strikes will have to break this deflecting wedge to get to the face. A few more knee strikes might be enough to break through, but then if I have to eat so many knees when I am doing this move, it's probably not working and I have to change my tactics anyways.

If the strike fails to push the clincher away, since your head is down you can either try to disengage by moving back, or drive a few elbows in the center.

Of course there is no surefire move that works every time, especially if your opponent expects you to do that. Every move has a counter if you think hard enough.

I'm just trying to find something simple with reasonable chance of succeeding and realistic enough not to get me seriously hurt if it doesn't work out.

BTW, I'm participating in some cross-MA sparring, it's non-official but we have to observe safety rules.

that's very great video, so before using the knee to hit other boxer, must be fast and hard. One hit to take him down. I saw some MMA video, the speed is very important.

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muay thai lover, love muay thai

Clinching for MMA is hard to defend becos a good MMA guy will have a range of repetoire of techniques that range from BJJ, wrestling, dirty boxing to Muay Thai.

But against a MT guy, he will be looking to disrupt your balance by keeping your head down and throwing his knees. If elbows are allowed, he might throw straight elbows like upper ups but its the elbow that will hit your sternum and chin. While short elbow jabs will be thrown like hooks from blind side.

The defence that I recommend is keep your head up before he wrapped his hands fully onto the top of your head. If he does that, he can break your posture easily. Put your same hand on his arm (right to right or vice versa)and pull it down to serve 2 purpose - 1. stop him from pulling you around at will 2. protect your chin. Then you wait for the opportunity to close the range to tie him up. Such as a knee to your body can open him to a throw if you can catch it. Remember if you got a hand across his arms, he can't knee your chin. That opens you to catch his knee.

This is really just basic stuff but simple doesn't mean easy. A good wreslter or Judoka usually do exceptionally well in clinch range. Thus the essence of combat sometimes is just effective footwork. Control the fight by controlling the distance and having a plan B goes a long way

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Upon being asked to come hear a person who could perfectly imitate a nightingale, a Spartan answered, "I have heard the nightingale itself."